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Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:40:09 -0700
From: John Moore <jmoore5@uswest.net>
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Subject: Re: Has GPL raised the standard too high?
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mark31600@my-dejanews.com wrote:
In article <36AEBC3A.D9B3423@uswest.net>,

>   John Moore <jmoore5@uswest.net> wrote:
> > Geez... I drove the Toca 2 demo for an hour and it was fun, good
> > graphics, super idea but it reminded me of NFS more than anything else.
> > Even with the physics on max it feels closer to an arcade game than a
> > driving sim.
> <SNIP>
>
>   I agree with Tel; the challenge of GPL comes from how unstable, apparently,
> those cars(in GPL) were to drive.

> They were unstable, but after a time GPL seems pretty stable to me.

> Its foolish to think of practically *any*
> other sim needing remotely the same qualities(as GPL).

> Especially anything modeled in a different era for totally different cars.

> In comparison, in real life, a Touring Car -would- be far less of a handfull
> obviously.

>duh

> And the aspect of tension in the danger of driving those old cars goes without
> saying. Touring Cars are technical machines compared to GPL era cars  ..the
> amount and quality of technology is higher. They are 'easy' to drive in
> comparison. They are vastly more stable of a platform.

>duh

> Its imbicile to regard TOCA 2 as arcadish based on how comapratively stable it
> is, compared to GPL.

> Thick skin here.

> Trans-Am cars were less stable than modern Touring Cars  ..it figures thatthey
> should behave that way. Because Touring Cars are more stable thanTrans-Am cars,
> does that make Touring Car racing more 'arcadish' in reallife?  There is a
> weird tendency to glorify the instability aspect of GPL.Its a 'mine is harder
> than yours' thing.. its stupid!

>?

> The trend in racing was AWAY from the hazards of those GPL cars.

> Like modern F1 isn't dangerous? rip Ayrton.

> The test, in my opinion, is how well you (some of you)
> GPL drivers think you can 'stand up' to the best drivers in other forms of
> sim-racing(racing them in THEIR game).

>I didn't refer to any "group" having more talent than another.

> OBVIOUSLY the answer is NOT VERY WELL.

>When did this get personal?

> You think just because you happen to prefer the instability aspect of GPL
> that you somehow have power over experienced racers in other disciplines?
> They'll wipe the floor with you!

>Uhh, hellooo McFly.

> Same is true for them: you wipe the floor
> with them if they are racing YOUR sim.

>Who cares?

> Downforce(or more stable) sims ARE NOT more arcadish than wing-less sims.

>Didn't say that.

> Ok, so it takes more physics to depict

> instability accurately  ..OK!!!!! OK!!!!

>So your'e saying GPL has a more complex pyhsics model?

> But play me at *my* sim  ..and
> you're dead meat buddy.

>Yeah whatever.

> One Racer to Another
> Mark Rael

> Dude, If you took the time to drive GPL long enough you would see how sweet it
is to drive a car you can feel.Every little thought from your brain to your feet
is transfered to the behaviour of the car. It is very difficult to drive and I
certainly do not expect everyone to like it. A lot of the difficulty comes from
the era and type of car, and yes, some of it comes from the physics model. I
won't go into this issue any further now. I will part with the thought that you
should consider not assuming something about someone who you don't know anyhting
about. FYI I have been making a good living for 25 years as a professional racer
in real life, including competing for a national title and teaching driving
techniques. Additionally I have been racing sims since I got bored with pong and
wrote my own sim in basic. I will not lower myself into an accusational cesspool
but simply say that I can hold my own.
JM

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