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From: pjgtech@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Peter Gagg")
Subject: Re: GLP is OVERRATED!
Message-ID: <F5oKw2.75F@cix.compulink.co.uk>
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References: <77qc7o$3sh$1@quince.news.easynet.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:45:38 GMT
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In article <77qc7o$3sh$1@quince.news.easynet.net>, mjm@easynet.co.uk 
(Dean) wrote:

> Firstly I think GPL is great but I have to say the religious 
> following is a
> little dodgy to say the least.

I personally cannot understand why there are so many negative posts 
about GPL at the moment? There are lots of driving games/sims that I 
don't use, don't like, or I am simply crap at. But I don't spend all 
my spare time writing posts slagging them off!!!! I concentrate on 
driving the games/sims that I *DO* enjoy.

As far as I can see, GPL is the best *overall* racing sim so far, just 
IMHO, it is not perfect, it has flaws, but it is *still* the best so 
far. The perfect program has not been written yet, and probably never 
will be. So lets give credit where credit it due?

I am a huge GPL fan. It is very hard to get to grips with (and I'm 
an *experienced* sim racer, note that I said experienced, and not 
fast or very good!) But thats half the thrill for me, mastering 
(even if its only slightly mastering!) the handling of these cars.

I knew it would be hard before I got it, and I am quite prepared to 
give up hours every week to continue the steep learning curve it takes 
to master these cars. Thats my choice, no-one is making me do it?

It also seems to me that most of the people ranting about GPL also 
think GPL is hard, often they think it is *too* hard?

I feel obliged to comment to some people who have, IMHO, posted unfair 
comments with regards to GPL, when it appears plain to me that they 
simply do not like GPL, or find it too hard to drive.

If you don't like it, don't drive it, simple? No-one is forcing you 
to buy it/drive it.

If its too hard, don't drive it, simple? plenty of people *can* drive 
the cars ok, and get decent times (I hasten to add I am not one of 
them, I'm still learning and not very good?)

If the above comments constitute religious rantings from a religious 
follower, then so be it......
 
> We ought to compile a list of whats wrong with it just to address 
> balance.

As I've said, GPL is not perfect, but neither is *any* other sim? GPL 
comes a lot closer to perfection to most (if not all?) though. And its 
remarkably bug free, compared to most other sims.
 
> 1) Opponents hit on framerate is unacceptable. Running on a 200mmx 
> with a
> Voodoo2 should be good enough (5 FPS with a full field is just bad
> programming). The Voodoo2 should take all the graphic duties and 
> the AI
> should have no effect on the graphics.

I have a K6 200, and with the pc optimised for games, some detail 
turned down, and with some AI running, I get decent enough fps. 
Certainly acceptible to me?

I also have a Celery 333, and GPL flies along nicely. Virtually all 
games from now on will push hardware further and further. GPL pushes 
hardware quite a bit, thats technology for you? Unfortunately a 200mmx 
pc is just not cutting edge hardware anymore? Its a fact, get used to 
it, cos less and less games are gonna run on that 200mmx.......

> Name one other game that 
> does this.

Gee, name a game that slows down, or suffers a performance hit when 
lots of things are happening in the game? Where do I start? Thats such 
a hard one? Try virtually every game you (or I) have ever played?

> If a 12 meg Voodoo2 can't move the fairly simple graphics around 
> then Papy
> have done a terrible job as far as 3d acceleration goes.

If you think GPL's graphics are fairly simple, then tell me what game 
has complex graphics? IMHO the graphics are pretty good, maybe not the 
best ever, but they certainly do the job. Oh, and my 12Mb V2 card 
seems to move the graphics ok? Do you have your's set-up correctly?
 
> 2) Crashing and getting stuck in a wall is just stupid. Advanced 3D 
> engine?
> I don't think so. I remember getting locked together with other 
> cars in
> Indycar 2 so maybe Papy just can't get collision detection sorted.

Can you name me a game with *perfect* collision detection? I cannot 
think of any? GP2? No, fraid not. F1RS? no, not here either! You let 
me know if you think of one.....Once again I think GPL does just fine 
here, you smack a car at high speed into a fence/wall and see what 
happens, the car normally gets pretty mangled? Do you expect the car 
to just bounce off so you can carry on? GPL is definitely not an 
*arcade* game where you might see this happen.

> 3) Accelerated time in menus going in to the race. Pop to the loo 
> while
> accelerated time is on and you return to a race in action.

Why do you put the game in accelerated time, (speeded up) then leave 
the room for a while? Why not just pause the sim? or leave it in 
*normal* speed? Would you "pop to the loo" if you were really 
just about to race?
 
> 4) No clutch control on auto gearbox. Why?

The real cars didn't have auto gears, the auto option is a driving aid 
for those not so gifted drivers? Do you have a clutch on a real auto 
gearbox? Why not try using manual?
 
> 5) Why when you crash badly do you get the TV snow effect? Ruins any
> immersion I feel.

If you crashed badly in real life, you would probably die? I know 
which I'de prefer.......It is actually meant to indicate a tv camera 
view, when you crash badly, the tv camera no longer works, simple.
 
> 6) No Force Feedback. I notice the manual sarcastically dismisses 
> current
> feedback technology but even with this you can tell when the front 
> end has
> begun to slide in MGPRS2 which would be a big addition to GPL.

IMHO, Sierra did the right thing by not including FF with GPL. I do 
not think it adds a great deal in its present form, and can actually 
detract from the feel of serious racing sims.

> 7) It is said GPL models air over the engine. Shame they never 
> model a car
> with grass on its tyres. Go on the grass and it has no effect once 
> your back
> on the track. Also I'm sure you wouldn't get the amount of grip on 
> the grass
> as you get. You can go wide on to the grass at 130mph (not that you 
> can tell
> your speed in the cockpit - what use are those guages?) and still 
> find
> enough grip to get back on. Surely not right.

Hmmm, feels pretty good to me on grass, normally if I've crashed or 
spun and am on the grass, I have little or no grip, and find it very 
slow to get back on the track, I have to tip-toe carefully or the car 
spins or slides all over the place? And gauges, they are actually 
fairly accurate. Most cars did not (and still do not) have speedo's? 
And the gauges do actually model engine temp, oil pressure, etc, so 
they do provide a purpose too.
 
> 8) Its difficult to tell what gear your in as the stick graphic is 
> terrible.

I thought you were using auto gears, so why worry what gear you are 
in? And any decent driver should automatically know which gear he is 
in at any point on the circuit (after some practice of course) and 
generally doesn't need to look at the gear lever? But if I *do* look 
at my gear lever, I can tell what gear I'm in, maybe its your graphics 
card?

> I don't have time while hurtling in to a corner to look at this as I
> downshift (a real driver would know as he would feel the position) 
> so often
> downshift too much and lock the rear. I'm sure practice will get 
> rid of this

It will, keep trying.....(still wondering how you are down shifting 
too much if using auto gears?)

> 9) The accuracy of the physics simulation is great but why ignore 
> the fact
> your on a computer without the feedback of a real car. Surely you 
> need to
> get creative with using other sources to give you feedback about 
> what the
> car is doing. I remember GP2 sound allowing me to know exactly what 
> the car
> was doing. I could tell the revs, speed and grip level just from 
> the noise
> (I'm not blaming GPL as no other race game has had the accurate 
> audio
> feedback that GP2 had).

I agree GP2 had great sound, but GPL's sound is good too? Not a 
problem for me? (You can hear the opposition in GPL too, but 
couldn't in GP2?)

> There are loads of other things but I'll give someone else a chance.

ok.....
 
> All that said it's still the most advanced race game but it's not 
> perfect by
> any stetch of the imagination.

Agreed, so why are you giving it so much grief? Why not pick on one of 
the other (even less perfect) games/sims....... And can you name me a 
*perfect* game/sim?

Like I said, don't like GPL? Find it too hard? simple....Don't drive 
it. It's *YOUR* choice.......

8-)

*Peter*   #:-)
