Message-ID: <36155E1A.3D4@trilobyte.net>
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:13:30 -0600
From: Paul Tenhet <pqt2@trilobyte.net>
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Subject: Re: GPL Handling
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David G Fisher wrote:
> 
> I'm just going to keep this post to one topic because it could (will) get
> long. I'm willing to say the game is a 10/10 if people can tell me I'm wrong
> in the following post. I actually hope you guys can do just that, so I can
> drop my concerns and just enjoy it, as is.
> 
> I really want to love this sim but I have some serious concerns as to the
> accuracy of the handling of the cars. They just seem to be too wild. Even
> for '67 F1. It is certainly possible to adapt and put up fast times in GPL,
> but it's the way you have to drive the cars in order to get those times that
> has me wondering.  If you look at the replays by the beta testers and the
> developers (including Kaemmer) which are included with the sim, the cars are
> all over the track, criss-crossing the drive line (which is the fastest and
> smoothest line around the track) instead of holding close to it. I watched
> each one from the chase view. Then I checked the AI, and they straddle the
> drive line and stay very, very, smooth through a race or practice session. I
> didn't see one replay where the testers were able to hold the drive line for
> very long through a lap. Not even close actually. The AI cars seem to drive
> the way I'd expect the rest (or at least the more dedicated and talented) of
> us should, yet even though the testers and developers have been racing this
> sim almost every day (I'm guessing) for maybe 5 months, they can't do it.
> Also, when I read the reports of the Papy Cup races, there is an awful lot
> of crashing going on and Alison said that when they would run a race with
> "shift-r" unavailable, it was not uncommon for no one (or few) to finish the
> race. With all the experience those people have with the sim (and their
> talent), why aren't the races more realistic in their results? I just don't
> get the impression that anyone can run the same lap times as the AI, and do
> it with the same smoothness and control (holding the race line which is the
> fastest path around the track) that they do. Also, could anyone drive that
> way for a full race (or even 5 laps?).
> 
> If not, then why? Either the AI is wrong or there is something wrong with
> the drive model. They can't both be right or the most experienced drivers
> (like Kaemmer) would look close to the same way on the track as the AI. The
> cars react too much to the smallest steering input IMO. I've seen some film
> of cars from that era and they looked to be fairly smooth around the course.
> Even in the rain (which IMO would be a mess to try to drive in with GPL).
> What I noticed about the real life drivers was that they really whipped the
> wheel around. Even in F1 today, real life drivers wrench that wheel quite a
> bit. In GPL, watch an in cab view of an available replay, or of yourself if
> your fairly good, and look at how little the steering wheel moves. People
> are driving by only moving the wheel a few degrees. There's about as much
> arm movement as an 80 year old Sunday driver needs to drive his Caddy on the
> open highway. There's even less movement by the AI drivers. I think someone
> described the steering as "ultra power steering" in a post here at r.a.s. It
> feels much too sensitive, especially compared to real life. The
> linear/non-linear slider isn't the answer. I've heard these '67 cars
> described as "overpowered, wooly handling, monsters" a million times. So why
> is the steering SO delicate? Marc Collins has said that a speed sensitive
> slider would be best good for this sim and I strongly agree.
> 
> If you just step back and try to approach the sim with a fresh view (even if
> you love it), and look at the way the cars handle, and how the steering
> responds to your input, something seems wrong. The way the best drivers'
> cars look as they do a competitive lap looks wrong, or at the least,
> considerably different from the AI. The results from races by people with
> months of practice time, and more talent than the average sim driver, are
> very surprising considering the amount of accidents that are still
> occurring.
> 
> David G Fisher
> DmndDave
You are absolutely right on all points but I'm afraid that you will not
get any sympathy from this NG and I'l probably get flamed for my
heresy.  After all these months of the vast majority of posters
proclaiming how great the Demo was and saying it is the best thing since
sliced bread and only slightly behind the Second Coming of Christ, do
you really think they will criticize it now,HA!!! Anyway, your points
should be of no suprise since the Demo had the same
shortcommings."TO-BE-FLAMED" Paul
