Message-ID: <36387D54.3986@ibm.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:36:04 -0600
From: Snowbird <snbird@ibm.net>
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Subject: Re: NTSB Reports on Midair Collisions: an Excursion
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Eric Rolfe wrote:

> In article <36265346.2960@ibm.net>, snbird@ibm.net wrote:
> [my anecdotal assessment of 3 years of NTSB midairs]
> > But the most common cause of midairs near airports was rather 
> > airplanes flying regular patterns at TPA and even making position 
> > calls on CTAF! In many cases, the overtaking aircraft knew that the > > other aircraft was in the pattern, even on the leg of the pattern he > > was about to enter, but flew on anyway without visual contact or any > > attempt to check the exact position of the other aircraft!  This was > > also the case in several accidents at towered airports.

> This is very interesting. I've been in the pattern and called 
> downwind, then had another airplane call downwind...and inform me that > he didn't see me. I looked around - didn't see him either. Is the next > step to give a more detailed position report (altitude and location on > downwind leg)? 

I think this is a good idea.  You want to give your own altitude
and position clearly and concisely then ask his location, all the
while looking carefully ahead of you and to your left and right
(remember some people like wiiiiiiidddde patterns, some like to 
hug the runway).  Something like "Cessna 123 is midfield on downwind
(or abeam the numbers for 18, or abeam the departure end, or 2
miles from the runway extended downwind, whereever), other aircraft 
(or Cessna, etc if you know the type) on downwind where are you?" 

"other aircraft say position" is more correct language, but I would
deliberately use chattier language in this case.  I've had it happen
several times that I was using more "correct" terminology.  SILENCE.
"Smallairport traffic, Grumman 12345 2 SE will be entering left 
downwind 18, anyone there speak up please!" said in my friendliest
voice, then I get a response**.  So there's a balance between not
sounding like a radio goofball, and not....?? sounding so correct
that pilots not used to the radio get tonguetied ?? (not sure what
the reason is).

> I was a bit worried that a turn was going to take me right
> into the other airplane. (In this case I called base, since I was
> near the end of the downwind leg by then). Should I have turned right,
> out of the pattern? Climbed? Descended?

Well the accident record shows when you know there's another plane
there and don't see him (he doesn't see you) you're right to be
worried!

I think you did what you should.  It's a tricky call, here's why:
if the other aircraft is behind you and overtaking, it's their
responsibility to turn right and climb out of the pattern to avoid
you.  So if they're behind you and you turn right and climb, they
could do the right thing and you'll still collide.  Likewise, if
they're slightly above you (esp. in a lowwing plane) and you 
climb (esp. in a highwing plane).  Same thing applies to descent.

You might raise your wings without turning (practice this at altitude,
it's just a quick coordinated roll left-roll right) and be sure you 
look carefully to both outside and especially inside you before turning
base, in case the other fellow likes to fly a much tighter pattern 
than you do and is slightly above you (if you're in a high wing).

If I didn't get a position response from the other plane, was sure
I didn't see him ahead of me on base, what I might do is stay at
TPA, turn left, follow the standard traffic pattern, and go around
(offset to the right of the runway a bit).  This is something
anyone behind you and above you ought to *expect* a plane ahead
in the pattern to do.

The real white-knuckles scenario is when you're on downwind for
18 (say) at an uncontrolled airport with L traffic for 18, and
someone else calls in downwind for 36 (which is R traffic).  Yike!
I wish they wouldn't have opposite-direction traffic patterns at
uncontrolled airports, but around here it's so common that one of
my early screw-up mistakes was to assume this was the case at an
airport where it wasn't (ooops! *blush*).

Snowbird


