Message-ID: <362E81FB.352E@ibm.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:53:15 -0500
From: Snowbird <snbird@ibm.net>
Reply-To: snbird@ibm.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: Re: Don't Do This! Re: Again, bumpy air brings me down
References: <362E0132.1589@ibm.net> <19981021184340.22634.00001564@ngol04.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
NNTP-Posting-Host: 32.100.136.50
X-Trace: 22 Oct 1998 01:13:44 GMT, 32.100.136.50
Organization: IBM.NET
Lines: 63
X-Notice: Items posted that violate the IBM.NET Acceptable Use Policy
X-Notice: should be reported to postmaster@ibm.net
X-Complaints-To: postmaster@ibm.net
Path: news.jprc.com!newsfeed.sgi.net!nntp.abs.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsm2.ibm.net!ibm.net!news1.ibm.net!32.100.136.50
Xref: news.jprc.com rec.aviation.student:36215

LFransson wrote:
 
> In article <362E0132.1589@ibm.net>, Snowbird wrote:
> >You are flying on YOUR CFI'S ticket.  If something happened,
> >it's not just you, YOUR CFI'S BUTT would be on the line.  If he
> >wants to be a professional pilot as so many CFIs do, you could
> >blemish or even ruin his career.
 
> I must disagree with you on this.  I think that there are all too many
> instructors who have such a paranoid attitude toward instruction and
> responsibility for their students' actions that they're unwilling to 
> do something so simple as providing a 90-day solo endorsement before a > student's checkride.  It's an attitude that irritates me no end.

With the latter I agree; if you don't want the responsibility, 
don't take the job.  But wrt the FAA holding instructor's responsible
for their student's failings, yes, it happens. 

> Do you know of a particular case where a student's errors 
> (particularly exceeding solo limitations) has resulted in action 
> against the instructor?  

Easy cite; check out
    http://www.avweb.com/articles/faavsair.html
(for those not familiar with avweb, you have to join but it's free)

The second part of the article describes CFI Mike Taylor's struggle
to retain not just his CFI, but ALL his certificates, after a solo
student of his ran out of fuel through flagrantly disregarding 
Taylor's instructions to buy fuel at his destination.  Taylor lost.
His hopes of an airline career are toast.  Scary reading IMO; the
guy had been cited as "Flight Instructor of the Year", and in
his view had given and logged all the required training to a student
with considerable prior experience.

> As long as all of MY ducks are in a row (all required training 
> performed and logged, all endorsements and limitations in the
> right places), I have covered myself.

Good luck; I hope your attitude is justified and if one of your
solo students breaks regs or limitations and gets in a mess it 
doesn't cause trouble with you. Personally, I think if a bureaucrat 
and a lawyer start looking, they can always find a flaw wrt some
training they deem insufficient or so forth.

That is why I personally feel that student pilots have a responsibility
to their instructor, to respect the instructor and adhere to his
limitations (negotiate for new ones if necessary).  I could never
blame a CFI who might not want to fly with a student because he
didn't feel a rappore like the student respected him.  Also why
is he the student's instructor if they don't respect his experience 
and knowledge?

But you are certainly welcome to disagree with me, and feel that
it's no big deal to the CFI for a student to fly in violation of his
solo limitations.  We'll just have to agree to disagree.  I certainly
admire your confidence.

Regards,
Snowbird


Personally, I could never blame an instruo

