Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!pacbell.com!rtech!ingres!garrett
From: garrett@Ingres.COM 
Subject: Re: Limiting Govt (was Re: Employment 
Message-ID: <1993Apr20.002139.5738@pony.Ingres.COM>
Summary: thanks for the offer
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords: 
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
References: <1qqikr$sd1@morrow.stanford.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: 20 Apr 93 00:21:39 GMT
Lines: 55

In article <1qqikr$sd1@morrow.stanford.edu>, XA.U20@forsythe.stanford.edu ( writes...
>In article <1993Apr17.033050.24901@pony.Ingres.COM>,
>garrett@Ingres.COM (GREP A FRIEND) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr17.023116.23031@eecs.nwu.edu>, ian@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu (Ian  writes...
>>>I couldn't disagree with you more strongly.  It sounds good, but in
>>>practice it too often becomes tyranny, because there are too often
>>>conflicting ideas of what constitutes "improving the human condition".
>>>Far better to let people and their organizations pursue whatever goals
>>>they think best, and let "the human condition" be improved by those who
>>>are willing to do so without coercion.
>>
>>There will always be conflicting ideas on what constitutes "improving the
>>human condition", that's humanity. You seem to believe that libertarianism
>>will improve the human condition by lifting all constraints, and that
>>people will have a better chance of improving themselves in that environment.
> 
>Let me try to put it another way.  Libertarians believe that an
>unconstrained environment provides the best chance of solving any
>problem because it maximizes creativity.  However, there is never
>any guarantee that a really good solution will ever be found to any
>particular problem.  "Utopia is not an option."

Utopia is a myth (although we can do a lot better than what we have today).
But I think that you must pitch Libertarianism as a progressive agenda
(ie You can do better under our style of system).

>>        I admire a lot of what the Libertarians stand for, but you
>>guys are some of the worst salesmen I have ever seen. And when it comes to
>>politics, you need salesmen whether you want them or not.
> 
>What we need are more people who agree with us, know something
>about marketin, and are willing to both do that marketing and teach
>others how to.  Are you in?

I'm flattered by your invitation, but I'm afraid you have the wrong person.
Although I completely agree with your civil liberties agenda, I'm not 
in support of your economic agenda. What I DO like about the Libertarian
party is that you guys are so good at shaking up the tired ideas of the
past. I encourage you guys to continue your crusade, but I'm afraid I
can't ride along. 
> 
>>>Ian Sutherland
>>>ian@eecs.nwu.edu
> 
>>"Nothing is as inevitable as a mistake whose time has          Garrett Johnson
>> come." --Tussman                                           Garrett@Ingres.com
> 
>/June

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Nothing is as inevitable as a mistake whose time has          Garrett Johnson
 come." --Tussman                                           Garrett@Ingres.com
"The probability of someone watching you is proportional
to the stupidity of your action." - Unknown
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
