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From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)
Subject: Re: Societal basis for morality
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 13:19:54 GMT
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In <1993Apr20.004119.6119@cnsvax.uwec.edu> nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye) 
writes:

>[reply to cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)]
> 
>>If morals come from what is societally accepted, why follow that? What
>>right do we have to expect others to follow our notion of societally
>>mandated morality?  Pardon the extremism, but couldn't I murder your
>>"brother" and say that I was exercising my rights as I saw them, was
>>doing what felt good, didn't want anyone forcing their morality on me,
>>or I don't follow your "morality" ?
> 
>I believe that morality is subjective.  Each person is entitled to his
>own moral attitudes.  Mine are not a priori more correct than someone
>elses.  This does not mean however that I must judge another on the
>basis of his rather than my moral standards.  While he is entitled to
>believe what his own moral sense tells him, the rest of society is
>entitled to pass laws spelling out punishments for behavior that is
>offensive to the majority.

Why? How? Might makes right? How can they force their morality on me? Why 
can't I do what I want? Who are they to decide? What if I disagree? 
> 
>Most criminals do not see their behavior as moral.  The may realize that
>it is immoral and not care.  They are thus not following their own moral
>system but being immoral.

Good point, but it is being immoral in our opinion.  We don't let them choose,
we make the decision that their actions are wrong for them.

  For someone to lay claim to an alternative
>moral system, he must be sincere in his belief in it and it must be
>internally consistent.  Some sociopaths lack an innate moral sense

I admit to lean toward the idea of an innate moral sense, but have little basis
for it as of yet.  How far can such a concept be extended?

 and
>thus may be incapable of behaving morally.  While someone like Hitler
>may have believed that his actions were moral, we may judge him immoral
>by our standards.

Do you mean that we could say it would be wrong for us to do such a thing but 
not him.  After all, he was behaving morally in his own eyes and doing what he
chose.  On what basis do we condemn other societies besides, here's the buzz 
words, on the idea that there are some actions wrong for all humans in all 
societies?

  Holding that morality is subjective does not mean
>that we must excuse the murderer.

Why not? Do we have to be objective suddenly?
> 
>David Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu).  Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI
>This is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher
>must learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell

MAC
--
****************************************************************
                                                    Michael A. Cobb
 "...and I won't raise taxes on the middle     University of Illinois
    class to pay for my programs."                 Champaign-Urbana
          -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate             cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu
                                              
Nobody can explain everything to anybody.  G.K.Chesterton
