Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
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From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE???
Message-ID: <1993Apr16.230314.969@microsoft.com>
Date: 16 Apr 93 23:03:14 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
References: <1993Apr8.212619.9252@tc.fluke.COM> 
Distribution: usa
Lines: 85


/(emery)
/The one single historic event that has had the biggest impact on the
/world over the centuries is the resurrection of Jesus.  

This is hardly possible, as the majority of people in the world were
born, lived their life, and died, without ever knowing anything about
Christ.  The majority of the rest of the world have decided that he 
is not who Emery thinks he is.



/(emery)
/Why were the writers of the New Testament documents so convinced that
/Jesus really did rise from the dead?
/We have four gospel accounts.  

I am leaving out all "proofs" of Emery's which rely on quoting the
bible as proof.  Circular reasoning, etc.  There have been occasions
already stated many times for later generations of Xtians to change,
edit, or otherwise alter the bible to fit their political gospel.
And if we accept the bible as true just because the bible says it
is true, then (to be fair) we have to do the same to the Bhagavad-Gita
and the Koran, both of which contradict the bible.

Enough said.



/(emery)
/Yet we have no reason to believe these disciples to be immoral and dishonest.
/We have no historic information that would lead us to the conclusion that
/these people were not God-fearing people who sincerely and whole-heartedly
/believed that the resurrection of their Lord Jesus was a real event.
/And for what gain would they lie?  To make a stand at that time meant 
/persecution, imprisonment, and perhaps even death.

Again, this is only the biblical account and there is no independent proof
of any of this happening.  It just isn't there.

Besides, simply being sincere or willing to die for your faith does not
make your faith correct.  There are Muslims dying in Bosnia right now;
does the fact that they are willing to die for Islam mean that Islam is
the correct religion?




(emery)
/History bears out the persecution of Christians.  Roman historian, Cornelius 
/Tacitus, Govenor of Asia, in A.D. 112, writing of Nero's reign, alluded to 
/the torture of Christians in Rome:


All you have proven is that these people were tortured for their faith.  That
does not prove that their faith is true or correct; it just means that they
were sincere in their beliefs. 

Being willing to die for what you believe doesn't make your belief the truth.
It's not that easy.  And minority religions have always suffered torture;
Muslims suffer torture and harassment in India and Bosnia today.  All religions
are harassed in China today.  You haven't proven anything so far.



/(emery)
/With all the suffering and persecution that it meant to be a believer, it
/would be quite probable that at least one of those in the supposed conspiracy
/would come forward and confess that the whole thing was a big hoax.  

Not if they didn't believe that it was a hoax.  


/(emery)
/Yet not one did.  It seems rather reasonable that the disciples did not make
/up the resurrection but sincerely believed that Jesus had actually risen
/from the dead; especially in light of the sufferings that came upon those
/who believed.

The followers of Muhammad firmly believed in the miracles that the Koran
says Muhammad performed.  They were attacked and slaughtered for their
beliefs.  They didn't denounce Muhammad or Islam.  If you are correct,
then that means Islam is the true faith.

You see how stupid your proofs are?  
