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From: mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones)
Subject: Re: How does a pitcher get a save?
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 21:56:25 GMT
Reply-To: mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
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References: <1993Apr23.135139.18749@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> <1993Apr23.150541.4617@bvc.edu>
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mikef@bvc.edu writes:
>In article <1993Apr23.135139.18749@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>, cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS) writes:
>> 	The subject line says it all. What is the rule that qualifies
>> a pitcher as making a save?
>IMHO this is the most untrustworthy, silly stat, by today's rules, in all 
>of baseball.  My understanding is to qualify as a save a pitcher cannot 
>pitch more than three innings and the potential tying run must at least 
>appear in the on-deck circle.  Also, the lead a pitcher enters with cannot 
>excede three runs.

This is a phenomenon known around work as ready-fire-aim. I am astounded at
the number of times people post strong opinions about things they not only
don't understand but publicly admit to not understanding. In fact, there's a
plausible argument that saves are a more rational stat than wins.

For the record, there are two ways that a reliever can get a save:
He must finish the game and either
1. have entered the game with the tying run on base, at bat, or on deck.
2. have pitched at least three innings effectively.
A pitcher may not get a win and a save in the same game.

>I believe that the official scorers must assert more of their authority in 
>determining winners/savers/etc.  For instance, a pitcher can come in in the 
>ninth with a lead, blow the lead, fall behind, have his team come back in 
>the next half inning and earn the win.  Has this pitcher earned a win, no 
>way.

But this is an argument that *wins* is a dumb stat, not saves.

>I guy could pitch five strong innings of middle relief and see his 
>teammates rally to tie the score.  Assume he came in to start the fourth 
>and left after the eighth.  His teammate holds the opposition scoreless in 
>the ninth and they score a run in the bottom of the ninth to win.  The 
>third pitcher earns the win and the middle reliever gets no "stat" 
>satisfaction.

This again doesn't support your claim about saves at the beginning of your
post. 

 Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com

Conceptual integrity is the most important consideration in system design.
	- Frederick P. Brooks, Jr., The Mythical Man-Month
